By David Marshall

Forever Marilyn Club

 

David Marshall: As most of you know by now, Forever Marilyn member Michelle Morgan’s new biography of Marilyn Monroe, Marilyn Monroe: Private and Undisclosed, will soon be released. The release date is set for August in the United States and in September in the United Kingdom. This is not Michelle’s first book on Monroe as many of you probably know her first book, Marilyn’s Addresses, written under her maiden name, Michelle Finn. As Michelle’s biography looks to be quite a departure from other recent books focused on Marilyn’s life, I thought it would be a wonderful opportunity for Michelle to tell us a bit about herself, her life and her newest work on Monroe.

How’s about we start off with you telling us a bit about yourself. Like about your new home, your daughter Daisy and your husband. 

Michelle Morgan: Well I’m 36 years old, married to Richard for ten years, and we have a three-year-old daughter, Daisy.  I’ve been a Marilyn fan since 1985 and have been the President of the UK’s Marilyn Lives Society since 1991.  I’m a writer and children’s yoga teacher by profession, and Marilyn Monroe: Private and Undisclosed will be my second book – the first was Marilyn’s Addresses in 1995.  We are about to move into our new ‘dream’ home, and we just can’t wait!  For the first time ever I’ll have a fully functioning study, which will be a dream come true!  My current ‘study’ is more of a store room, with books and junk everywhere and not even a desk and chair to sit at!! 

 DM: Congrats on the new house. Before we get into your newest project, fill us in on how you first became interested in Monroe. Was this as a child or did you first become interested later on? 

 MM: I remember seeing Some Like It Hot when I was a little girl and loved it, but I didn’t really become interested in Marilyn until I was fifteen and on holiday with my parents.  I saw a photo of her and wanted to buy a book about her to read on holiday.  I was lucky enough to find the Fred Laurence Guiles book and read it from cover-to-cover.  After that I spent my holiday money on postcards, then I bought one or two books over the next year (using my pocket money and Saturday job money!) and when we went on holiday the next year, I had saved up enough to buy about ten books!  Every day we would go out and I would buy another Marilyn book – I was able to get some classics such as the Marilyn Mon Amour by Dienes; Monroe by James Spada; and Goddess by Anthony Summers.  It was fantastic because for the first time since becoming a fan, I had enough money to really invest in my collection – and I’ve been doing it ever since.  

DM: The first book I read about Marilyn was Norma Jean too. Great to start off reading about Marilyn from an author who so obviously respects her. I know that the online groups have opened a whole new world for me in that for the first time I was able to find others who shared my interest in Monroe while people in my day to day life often thought I was slightly nuts. Was this the case with you as well? 

 MM:  Oh yes!  For the first six years of being a fan, I felt like I was the only Marilyn fan in the world!  Then I started the Marilyn Lives Society and suddenly I didn’t feel so alone anymore!!  Then in the mid-1990s I discovered the online community through Peggy Wilkins’ group.  There was a guy who was a member, called Eric Noodle (He swore that was his real name!) and he was the first friend I had on the Internet.  I then became a member of Debbie Jasgur’s group, which I think is now Immortal Marilyn.  Discovering groups such as Forever Marilyn was a God-send to me, because it gave me access to lots of like-minded people, at the touch of a button!  I can’t imagine not having the groups (and people) in my life now – it seems I’ve known you all forever! 

 DM: Does Richard support your interest? I assume he must, having had to live with you through the writing of Private and Undisclosed. 

MM:  Richard really does support me and has developed a soft spot for Marilyn over the years.  Don’t get me wrong, he’d much rather be watching CSI, Lost or 24, than a Marilyn film, but he doesn’t complain if I put on a Marilyn film.  He was certainly a huge help to me when writing the book, even when I got very grumpy when writing parts of the book that were depressing or upsetting in some way.  My whole family have been there for me 100 per cent during the writing of this book, and that makes me feel very happy. 

 DM: Even if one’s mate isn’t a fan, I think any writer needs that support. Before we get into your newest book, what was the genesis of Marilyn’s Addresses? I know it predates Eric Woodard’s Hometown Girl which also highlights places Marilyn lived, worked and played. What made you think there would be an audience for a book like this? 

 MM: I initially wrote a little pamphlet called The Marilyn Monroe Address Book, which I published myself in 1993.  I wrote it because when I had gone to LA in 1992, I hadn’t found many Marilyn locations and thought an address book would come in useful if I ever went again!  It sold to the members of my fan club and I sent it to Robert Smith, the publisher who did James Haspiel’s book, The Ultimate Look at the Legend.  He wrote back straight away and said that he was about to attend the Frankfurt Book Fair and if he could get people interested in the book, he’d like to publish it in the UK.  I couldn’t believe it!  I was on cloud nine!  That was in September 1993, and in November he decided that his company, Smith Gryphon would definitely publish, but could I please have it all finished by January 1994!  I was blown away a) because it was exciting news but b) because I only had two months to write a completely revised edition of my original pamphlet.  It was really hard doing it all on time and there was a lot of blood, sweat and tears, but I did it and was very proud of it.  It is interesting to note that Robert Smith - the person responsible for publishing Marilyn’s Addresses, is now my agent, and of course sold Marilyn Monroe: Private and Undisclosed! 

DM: So now in addition to having produced two great books, you can be a role model for aspiring writers. I don’t think people really understand how near to impossible it is to find an agent and get published. Maybe we should all take a tip from Marilyn and just keep persevering. So after Addresses reached print, there was a stretch of time between it and the new book. What made you want to pick the subject up again? 

 MM: Well I never put down the subject really.  Marilyn has always been a huge part of my life and that will continue forever….  BUT after Marilyn’s Addresses, I started researching her time in England, and that took a few years but no-one was interested in publishing it.  Then I wrote several novels which were picked up and dropped by a variety of agents!  Finally I took the decision to write a full biography in 2003; sent the idea to Robert Smith and he asked me to rewrite the proposal and write the entire England chapter.  I did it and he then had me rewrite the proposal about a hundred times, before finally he thought it was good enough to send out to publishers.  Well all the hard work paid off because in the end we had offers from two publishers, and we were able to choose which one to go with.  It was an amazing feeling!  We chose Constable and Robinson because they were offering much more in terms of the production of the book – glossy pages, photos throughout and World rights – meaning they would be responsible for selling it to publishers around the world.  Already they have acquired a US publisher (Carroll and Graf), and hopefully there will be more.  The biggest dream is to get this book to as many people as I can, because I wrote it with the fans in mind and I’d love for them to actually be able to read it! 

 DM: Maybe now would be a good time to explain the differences between your biography of Marilyn and those that have come before. 

 MM:  Well I think that everything is different about it, I really do.  Yes the basic story is the same – of course that’s never going to change – but within that basic story are many little events which I have tried to cover as much as I can.  I have made a point of not using previous biographies unless I absolutely have to; I have checked a few details, and used them as a spring-board to my research, but wherever possible I have gone  back to the original source – either person, document or article – to piece together the truth.  I did not want to rely on someone else’s research because I’m a bit of a control freak!! J (Just ask my publisher – I bombard him with emails every single day!)  So where one writer might report that Marilyn said XYZ to Mr X, I would not trust that to be true until I contacted Mr X to find out for sure.  If I couldn’t contact him, I’d try to find a newspaper article from the time and try and find out information from there.  Over the years stories become bigger and more exaggerated, so it has been important for me to go back as far as I can in order to get closer to the truth before all the rumors and fibs have been added on.  Also, the fact that so many documents and letters have been released over the past few years has been a huge boost for me and makes my book very different from others who did not have access to these documents. 

DM: What impresses me the most is the number of people you have been able to track down who played a part in Marilyn’s life yet have never been approached by past biographers. Without giving too much away, can you tell us a few of the people you were able to interview for the book? 

 MM: I have been able to speak or correspond with around 100 people.  Some of those were fans who just saw Marilyn for a moment or two, while others are colleagues who worked with her for a time; then family members and friends who knew her for years.  Some of the people I have spoken to include:

·        Wes Kanteman - Norma Jeane’s nephew when she was married to Jim Dougherty

·        Michael Selsman – Press rep who worked at the Arthur Jacobs Agency

·        Hal Schaefer – the man who Joe DiMaggio was trying to catch during The Wrong Door Raid

·        Elliot Reid – Ernie Malone in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes

·        Bob Cornthwaite – Dr Zoltec in Monkey Business

·        Nancy Bolender – Norma Jeane’s foster sister

·        Jim Dougherty – Marilyn’s first husband

·        Peer J Oppenheimer – a reporter who met and interviewed Marilyn many times

·        Peggy McGuiggan – part of the girls band in Some Like It Hot

·        Richard Baer – he worked with Marilyn on Clash by Night 

Plus: Marilyn’s first boyfriend after she divorced Jim Dougherty – he is a very special source who shared so much with me about Norma Jeane and the beginnings of her career.  He was actually at Aunt Ana’s house when Norma Jeane returned from her first screen test at Fox!  That is how important he was to my research.  I also spoke to Norma Jeane’s friend from the orphanage who shared not only memories of NJ, but also stories of the day-to-day running of the orphanage, which was extremely interesting to me – I mean we’re talking about things that happened 70 years ago – and he remembers!  He was an amazing find and I am just so grateful to him for helping me.  He really brought life to the orphanage section of the book – not necessarily talking about Norma Jeane, but the things she would have done at the Home; the people who visited and the way other children treated them.  It was amazing talking to him! 

 DM: I was excited about the book before but hearing just some of the folks you’ve been able to track down and interview, now I can hardly wait to read this! Were there any that you contacted only to have them refuse to talk?

 MM: Yes there were a few, unfortunately: Pat Newcomb, Jane Miller, the entire Greenson family, Morton Miller, Jack Monroe and Marjorie Snyder.  In the case of Jack Monroe (Marilyn’s cousin), his daughter tried hard to get him to talk to me but because of the awful stories that have been printed over the years, he just doesn’t want to speak to anyone.  It was a shame because his stories would have been wonderful, but his family’s treatment by others has meant we all miss out on his memories.  I find that very sad, but I completely understand the hurt his family has felt about some of the lies that have been printed about them in the past. 

 DM: I think that’s the case with all of the people who don’t want to be interviewed. Which is a shame as they could clear up the past false stories. I really wish you would have been able to speak with Whitey’s widow. There really is so little written about their very special relationship. Of the ones that you were not able to speak with, living or dead, who would you have most wished to interview for the book?

 MM:  Well I would have loved to speak with Marilyn of course!  But also it would have been good to speak to Pat Newcomb, Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn’s mother, Gladys Baker.

 DM: One of the bones of contention with many Marilyn fans is the proliferation of things that have been written about her that simply do not ring true. Some have pointed to Robert Slatzer, Jeanne Carmen and June DiMaggio as “muddying the waters,” so that those interested in Marilyn’s story are sometimes unable to find the truth for so much fiction. How do you feel about this? 

 MM: I agree.  But I can say that none of the above are mentioned in my book, apart from Slatzer who we know did meet Marilyn in Niagara, and also wrote a column about her in 1952.  I have dealt with that, but give him no other exposure in the book at all.  I wouldn’t want to say one way or the other about the stories these people come up with, except to say that since I didn’t include any of their memories in the book, perhaps that is an indication about how I feel!  I must say though that the stories these people have told about Marilyn’s last months has made it very difficult for me to write about that period of her life, as we just don’t know if they have any truth in them at all.  That is another reason why I have gone back to the original newspaper reports from the period, so that I can write the truth as it was known at the time, rather than ‘truth’ as it has become over the past forty-five years. 

 DM: I really like that: “the truth at the time.” Did you at any time feel that some of the people you spoke with for the book were fibbing or stretching the truth?

 MM:  There were only two people I felt were fibbing.  One said he worked on The Prince and the Showgirl, but I couldn’t find his name anywhere in the vast Laurence Olivier files and production records.  He spoke to me quite normally at first, telling me things Marilyn did (not complimentary stories I might add), but then went on to say that she kept demanding the telephone so that she could phone Jack Kennedy.  As soon as he said that, I put my pen down; I knew I was wasting my time.  I know that Marilyn DID used to demand the telephone while on set (and her phone bills were huge!) but it was to ring Lee Strasberg, not JFK!  He also told me that Marilyn would be many, many hours late on set – going off on her bike all morning and then coming in for a few hours in the late afternoon.  That was not true as far as I could see, judging by the production records of the film itself. 

 The other person I suspected was fibbing, was a lovely man who said he was friends with Norma Jeane when she was 18 years old.  I really wanted to believe him because he was a very sweet man, but he told me they went out with each other seriously while she was that age, then moved to New York for eight or nine months.  Well she was married to Jim Dougherty when she was 18 and I’m pretty sure he or his family would have noticed if she’d gone to New York with another man!  It was a shame because perhaps he just got his dates wrong but I just couldn’t believe him and ended up not including any of his memories in the book at all.  

 DM: As much as I enjoyed Marilyn’s Addresses, this new book is a much larger project and will have a much wider distribution. How does it feel to suddenly find yourself on the same level as Spoto, Leaming and Guiles?

MM: I just find it scary that people would think of me at the same level as the big biographers!  If people think that once the book is published and they have had a chance to read it, well that’s terrific – I’ll be very honored!  But until then, I am just anxious for people to enjoy the book – There has been such a lot of talk about my book that I hope so much I don’t let anyone down! 

 DM: Believe me, Michelle – from what I’ve learned just from this talk guarantees that no one will be disappointed! But now that it’s all become real, do you have any plans of doing a book tour or book signings? Any locations planed where some of the Forever Marilyn members might be able to meet you? 

 MM:  There are definitely going to be some events in London.  I can tell you that for sure!  But as to what the events will be, or where they will take place, I don’t know at this stage.  There is talk of a launch party which is very exciting I must say!  I also want to get the book onto UK TV programs such as Richard and Judy and This Morning, so I’m going full-steam ahead to try and get that done.  Richard and Judy have a very successful book club, so if we could get it onto there, I’d be a very happy lady! 

 DM: If theirs is anything like Oprah’s, you could easily see your book a major bestseller over night. Literally. But how about those of us on this side of the Atlantic? I know there has been some pressure for you to come to Los Angeles in August. As the US publication will coincide with the memorial, is there any chance we might see you there? 

 MM:  There have been lots of requests for me to go to LA and I would love to, BUT I have to wait and see I’m afraid.  The publisher is trying to work something out, but there is nothing concrete yet.  When I find out, members of the Marilyn community will be the first to know!  Watch this space….. 

 DM: After having delved so deeply into Marilyn’s story, is there anything that has somehow affected you in your own life? Any lessons learned? 

 MM:  That’s a great question!  I have learned so much during this book.  During the writing of the book I gave birth to my daughter; turned 36; and ultimately began outliving Marilyn.  That in itself taught me much about what a tragic life Marilyn had, as I feel like I’m just beginning at age 36, and her life was just ending.  It has made me appreciate my family and friends more because in truth, who exactly do Marilyn have in her life at the end?  On her last day she spent time with her press representative, her housekeeper and her psychiatrist; and I find that to be absolutely tragic.  Yes I know that Pat Newcomb was her friend, but she was an employed friend, rather than someone she had known for many years.  And for Marilyn to be upset and phone her psychiatrist to come see her – that’s so sad.  When I’m upset I speak to my husband, or phone my parents, but although Marilyn had parents, they never had that kind of relationship, and I think that’s just tragic.  So in conclusion, I learned the importance of friends, family and most of all the pleasure of truly enjoying being alive!  We are all privileged to be on this earth and it is our responsibility to enjoy the time we have here; make the most of everything; and leave the world in a better place when we go…. 

 DM: If your answer to this question is any indication of how much thought has gone into your work, then this book is slated to be really something special. How about you let us know where and how we can pre-order the book? 

 MM:  It can be ordered from Amazon and all the usual Internet book shops, as well as your local book shop, both in the UK and the USA.  Unfortunately I don’t know if book shops in other parts of the world are going to stock it at this moment – I will know more after the London book fair in April, where my publisher is showcasing the book to other publishers.  The book will be published in the UK by Constable and Robinson and the USA by Carroll and Graf, so if there are any problems with ordering, please contact them.  They will definitely know how you can get hold of a copy! 

 DM: I don’t want to hold you any longer as I know now that the book is completed you are kind of decompressing and discovering the “real world” all over again. Is there anything I’ve neglected to mention or ask? 

 MM: No, I don’t think so.  But I would like to add something though – thank you to all members of Forever Marilyn for supporting both myself and the book throughout the past four years.  I have really appreciated everything they have done for me.  I feel very proud to call them my friends….

 DM: There is nothing I can add to that. I think not only are the members excited about the book but we’re plenty proud of you. Michelle, thank you so much – not only for your time and for sharing your thoughts but for writing what looks to be one of the best books on Marilyn yet. You’ve done her proud too!

David Marshall is the author of The D D Group: An online investigation into the death of Marilyn Monroe